I’ve been running into this conversation repeatedly over the past week, so I figured it was time to do a full entry about it. When I wrote my initial response to the CrunchGear piece, “CrunchGear goes back to (private) school,” I got a comment from someone named Robert who didn’t agree with my calling the macbook “relatively cheap.” He said “All comparisons with the Dell models aside, it’s still one of the more expensive laptops you can buy, feature for feature.” Today I received a comment from Chaz, my resident coder, who’s opinion I hold in high regard. He said:
“A similarly featured Dell laptop can be purchased for ~600-700. You’re paying twice the going rate for the same hardware, so I would hardly call that a bargain. When you’re buying a Mac, you’re buying it because you need their hardware to legally run OS X, not because their hardware is better or more affordable….”
NOTE: He also mentions issues with dual booting and desktop preference, but I didn’t have time to address those in this post. –
So allow me to explain why exactly the Apple Macbook is a bargain.
Going through the Dell educational line-up, I chose the new Inspiron E1405 - $679 (after $100 rebate) before taxes. I think that including the conditional and time sensitive rebate is more than generous considering that Apple’s prices never waiver, although they might throw in an accessory discount. This computer falls directly between Chaz’s “600-700″ range, and seems perfect. I am going to compare this computer to Apple’s most basic white Macbook configuration.
Intel Core Duo 1.6 LOSE
XP Media Center
512 mb RAM TIE
CD Burner, DVD player TIE
Wireless (802.11b/g) LOSE
60GB Hard drive TIE
Integrated Intel graphics TIE
14.1 widescreen display WIN
Intel Duo Core 1.83 WIN
Mac OS X
512 mb RAM TIE
CD Burner, DVD playerTIE
Wireless 802.11b/g + Bluetooth 2.0 WIN
60GB Hard drive TIE
Integrated Intel graphics TIE
13.3 widescreen display LOSE
Right off the bat I need to upgrade the Dell to get it to the same equipment stance. Sure, I could have picked a different model that came closer to the macbook by default, but this is the price range I’m working with. Upgrading processor and wireless bumps us to $908 (according to the online system configuration). We are now within 200 dollars (before tax and shipping of the Macbook. So lets discuss what makes the Macbook stand out in the non-configurable:
The macbook’s battery is a 55 watt, while the Dell is a 53. We can assume from the recent Sony battery Apple/Dell explosion recall that these are similar batteries. +1 for Macbook. The macbook comes with an iSight built in. External models cost 150+. The macbook has sudden motion sensing technology to protect your hard drive from a fall. I couldn’t find any mention of this on the Dell site. The Macbook also comes with a remote, which isn’t an option with this dell (external tuners not included). The Dell weighs 5.30 lbs while the Macbook weighs 5.2 lbs. I’m just getting started. Add in a magsafe power adapter to prevent falls, and all the great design aesthetics from Cupertino that Dell doesn’t even try to touch, well… you get the idea.
But here’s the kicker. Chaz points out “When you’re buying a Mac, you’re buying it because you need their hardware to legally run OS X, not because their hardware is better or more affordable.” This is very true, non-apple configured machines cannot legally run OS X. There are driver issues up the wazzoo. On the flip side, all new intel macs CAN LEGALLY run Windows. Apple is several years ahead of the PC world by adopting EFI over BIOS, but it is willing to cripple itself if you want to boot Windows. I would also argue that by having your hardware chosen specifically by the software manufacturer instead of a 3rd party builder, you are getting a major advantage.
Now subtract the cost of virus protection (no, seriously), the maintenance time of non-unix systems and spyware problems, and ALL the cost saving benefits of iLife.
In summation
Technically, let’s face it. Apple is actually cheaper.
I get the feeling that people who argue about this with me either don’t own a mac and are jealous, or just never had to opportunity to become enamored with one (CHAZ!). So open your heart, let down your shields. Fork over your wallet and fall in love all over again.
I don’t necessarally agree with all of your match ups.
For starters, you don’t go back to talk about the 1 inch difference in display size. In laptops, display size causes huge price differences. If you want two laptops with the same display size, you need to jump up to MacBook Pro, since I couldn’t find any 13 inch laptops on the Dell side.
For Dell I’m using I1505 as my base. To match the basic MacBook Pro, I up the Dell processor to 2GHz, HD to 80G, add Bluetooth, and a remote. My new price for the Dell is $978 and the Mac is $1,999.
What’s missing from the Dell? A webcam. That can be purchased at any Best Buy for $30-$50. The Mac’s power supply still has 2 more watts. And we don’t know about “shake protection”?
So, minus two watts and shake protection, you could roughly buy two Dells for the cost of one similar MacBook. Did I miss anything?
“The macbook has sudden motion sensing technology to protect your hard drive from a fall. I couldn’t find any mention of this on the Dell site.”
funny you should mention that, because, I couldn’t find any mention of this on APPLE’s website either. the motion sensor is limited to the macbook pro. point stricken.
“The Dell weighs 5.30 lbs while the Macbook weighs 5.2 lbs.”
if you can actually notice a difference of .1 lbs, more power to you. however, this sounds to me like another mac fanboy trying to make out apple hardware as being more than it actually is.
“The macbook’s battery is a 55 watt, while the Dell is a 53.”
while this is a little more noticable than .1 lbs its still not something on which to base an argument.
Derek: you can find the motion sensing information at this link here: http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=300781.
As far as the other numbers, I was asked to compare spec to spec. So, even if the processor (and this is imaginary, remember) is a 1.8 and the other is a 1.800001, then TECHNICALLY you are getting more for your money, right?
Just brass tacks. Lighter is lighter and longer is longer.
I have a Macbook, they truly are the complete computer… I love it.
And on the motion sensor issue, my Macbook does have it as does my sisters old iBook from last year!!!
Chaz: I didn’t touch the screen issue because I thik thats a personal issue (same as not scoring os x v.s. xp media center edition). I like my 13.3 better than my old 15″PB. I also didn’t address it because despite the difference in size, the macbook has the same screen resolution. 1280×800. If you want to judge .8 inches of screen estate, then you have to consider the minute changes in weight and battery life. The E1505 has 15.4″, true, but it is also CONSIDERABLY larger than the macbook in footprint. If we are talking portables, size matters.
Plus, c’mon.. iSight is way better than your run of the mill 30 dollar camera. Ambinet noise reducing, high quality light, PLUS design. None of you PC people want to include the aesthetics. They are huge!!
And we know about shake protection. See my response to Derek.
No matter what your hard ware configuration, you still have to consider the software that makes it -useable-. Pick up some virus protection with updating virus definition files, some decent spyware removal stuff, and all the great software iLife gives you that you’d (probably) have to shell out for to achieve on a PC (oss community excluded).
All in all, I think that despite my calculations showing dell being more expensive, the real cost saving is in the software.
“So, minus two watts and shake protection, you could roughly buy two Dells for the cost of one similar MacBook. Did I miss anything?” -Chaz
I’d rather have one MacBook Pro than two of those Dells. Eli made a great point about screen sizes in his latest comment. Among college students, a 13.3 inch screen is much more desirable than a larger screen which you mention.
From a hardware standpoint, it’s much nicer to have a webcam and bluetooth built right in instead of connecting and disconnecting external devices.
I agree 0 with Eli that you get more for your money with the Macbook. In the long run, economic cost will be much higher with the Dell. You can pay now or pay later.
Nicely said, Logan.
I can say with no shame that I was a huge PC fanboy about 4 years ago. I could argue with the best of them that PC’s could do anything that a Mac could do, with the right equipment and software.
What it really comes down to is that macs do it right out of the box. From day 1 they are better equipped than their windows counterparts. Sure you can do the same stuff, it just takes more work, time and money. Why not skip the hassle, get it done now, and relax sooner?
life is better in cocoa!
Screen size is important not because one size is better than another, but because it largely defines laptop price brackets. I’m quite happy with my 14 inch screen and would find a 15 inch screen to be more than what I would want to carry around with me. And, let me point out that my PC laptop is tiny and pretty. :-) Apple does not have an exclusive license over aesthetics.
Perhaps I underestimated the value of an iSpot replacement? Possible. I haven’t used the iSpot. The $50 Logitech cameras are pretty good, though. Either way, I don’t care. We’re looking at nickels and dimes in context of the entire system. Does a college student even have a pressing need for a webcam? I only know a handful who bought one. With the Mac does the student get an option to not include the iSpot?
iLife does stuff like make calendars and greeting cards, right? That’s the impression I get from Apple’s website at least. You can get a copy of Printshop Delux for $20-50 for Windows that does exactly this. This sort of software has been around since the 80’s. Not worth $900, particularly for college students who probably don’t even need it.
Anti-virus software is something I deliberately side-stepped because we are talking about college students. Most universities offer free anti-virus software complete with updates.
I was also being polite by not mentioning that students using Apple would also have to purchase MS Office at some point. Most PC users get it bundled for cheap with their hardware, but I didn’t see that option on Apple’s website. Nor did I mention that Apple people interested in using their newfound duel-booting ability would have to buy Windows at retail price. Luckily duel booting students won’t have to worry about anti virus subscriptions because, again, their university most likely will foot the bill.
–
To clarify, I’m mearly refuting your assertion that Macs are a more cost efficient solution than PCs, particularly for new college students. A PC always beats an identically equipped Mac on price and both will serve a student very well. Do you still disgree with that assessment? Two posts ago it sounded like you did.
Screen size can define price brackets in both direction. You can find yourself paying just as much of a premium for a 17′ as you do for the tiny laptop than can handly a 12. I only discounted your other dell choice because it was way bigger than what we were considering. Remember that the macbook could easily have been a 15″, they just aptly recognized the call for a 13″ to bridge models, and sales have shown that they were right.
As far as aesthetic, beauty is always in the eye of the beholder. I still contend that Apple has an almost flawless track record (in the past decade at least) for attention to design, while just about every PC manufacturer was stuck in the beige box. It is widely acknowledged that Apple’s design requirements have caused other manufacturers to adjust. That said, some people like an XPS system, others like the cheese grating Mac Pro. Tomato Tomatoe.
The iSight (i love ispot btw) is just a great webcam. It is a grade above your 30-50 dollar webcam. Nothing more really. In order to compare both systems, they have to be similarly equipped, so with Apple adding it in standard, the Dell had to bring that into the equation. You cannot remove it from the configuration on any of their laptops. It is key because Leopard (os 10.5) has some really strong video chat features through iChat (iLife).
iLife includes iTunes - which I consider to be the most intuitive music management system I’ve used, iPhoto - absolutely terrific photo management which can do prints and photocasts, Garageband - royalty free loop manager and miniature recording studio, iDVD - decent DVD author suite, never really used it, iMovie - Terrifically simple but powerful video editing software, and iWeb - very very very easy web management software (EVEN IF IT DOESN”T WORK IN ANYTHING BUT SAFARI!!). Besides calendars and greeting cards, iLife’s incredible strangle hold on the competition is that they all work together perfectly. Make a song in Garageband, hit a button and it goes over to iTunes for loading onto your iPod. Record a diary entry with your iSight into iMovie, score it in Garageband, and pump it over to iDVD. It just works. There’s no manual to read. Anyone can do it. And while Printshop Deluxe can do it, why bother when the already amazing system is preinstalled and talks to the whole computer. That said, I spend most of my time in the pro apps, not iLife. Those cost a pretty penny.
I disagree that virus software can be sidestepped because not all colleges offer that service. For the few left out in the cold that still have to shell out 50 bucks, I’m sorry. Talk to your it department.
Windows licenses are bundled cheaply with PC units, but I’m pretty sure MS Office costs the same between OS’s. On top of that, many reviewers find that the Mac MS Office is actually better built than the windows version. Go figure!
It is true that you will have to buy a retail license of WIndows to run it. Unless you spend 30 bucks on crossover and just run the .exe’s in os x. Or wait for Darwine to come out. Even if you insist on have a full installation, paying 100 some odd dollars is better than having to buy an entire second system, something a PC user wishing to run OS X “legally” has to do.
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So in summation, yes I do still disagree that a mac can (and is this case does) beat a pc in price.
“A PC always beats an identically equipped Mac on price” - Tell that to the mac pro that is 900 dollars cheaper than its equivalent dell.
I guess since this is a discussion on what kind of computer a college student needs i guess it will be proper if a ‘college student’ weighs in on this discussion, which will be ‘moa’. over the past seven years I’ve used 3 different brands of pc’s all my life and I’ve crashed all without even thinking, the good thing that came out of the whole thing was that it taught me how to back up all my school work, find out about firefox and learn more about computers so I could revive each and every one that I crashed. I learnt that even after building my 4 and final pc, is that its not the hardware that is the problem its actually the OS. I used to love windows because of all the things it could do and It almost seemed like they where being innovative and thinking about their users and not just how much software they can sell, but i started to ask why couldn’t I do this or why couldn’t I do that, without having a degree in computer science.
What actually got me to start the switch was when my last computer that I built to the best specs on the market 2 yrs ago, but if anyone wants to know here are the specs
P4 3.0 GHZ
1gig of memory
CD burner
dvd burner
256 graphics card
xp proffesional
when I first got it was nice, everything was fast smooth no problems, could run Illustrator cs2, photoshop cs2 with ease, and of course play games but it was nice till about a month after I got It and realized it was running extremely sluggish, this is before i realized that my school provided antivirus for the students, so I got the antivirus from windows website, then everything was good again till I started to notice that the antivirus found a couple of trojans but wouldn’t delete them, then my mouse started to act up, computer was slower than what a computer with 1 gig of ram should be, error signs where popping up on my screen every time I logged on, to put it in a word “frustrating”. so i thought that if I reinstalled windows this will fix the problem well it fixed part of it and gave me some new ones like there will be sometimes when I would eject the cd burner, or dvd burner and put a cd, and close the drive and this will freeze up the computer, well this whole situation pretty much broke the camels back, I mean I felt like I was throwing all my money and parents money that i invested in this computer down the drain. so I decided to get a mac so I got a G4 powerbook (i didn’t get a mac book or mac book pro because I want all the bugs to be worked out before I get one, im guessing by this time next year all their problems will be resolved) but I just got my Powerbook and I was blown away by how smart and intuitive that this system was, I mean the programs that came with this os where just smart I felt like they sat someone down and asked what would you like your computer to do for you. I mean I can navigate through illustrator, flash, and photoshop with ease but when it came to powerpoint, or many of the Microsoft’s programs that came with the computer, excluding word, but all these programs where just not intuitive enough, I want to be able to leave illustrator and come to outlook and not have to rack my brain on how to send an email. I’ve had my powerbook for 3 months now and i still find new ways to organize everything. Im actually updating the antivirus on my pc as I type on powerbook and organizing my classes for tomorrow in ical and creating some class work in illustrator, without a problem, and using neo office organize my notes which is a free software alternative to word, which exports fine to word and back.
In other words you can compare how pc’s are cheaper all day but in the end you will be doing what I used to do, that is not wanting to use this hunk of metal, silicone, and plastic and trying to figure out why you payed for this piece of machinery that is supposed to do all these things that they got you to pay for, but if you do these things you might get a virus, and have to format my hard drive just to make sure that you got it of. if i where to add up everything that I had to pay for just to keep my pc up to date or to upgrade so that it can handle anything that I threw at it, it just pisses me off. the way i look at it is if you want to pay for a Honda for the rest of your life, or pay for an Acura now it really is up to you
True. Sometimes a small form factor can be a premium. Either way, screen size can have a huge impact on price, so comparing 13 inch to 14 inch is comparing apples to oranges.
I agree that it is silly to debate over aethetics. It’s entirely subjective. I only mentioned them because you mentioned them first. :-)
So, on the iSight we can adjust price by about $100 and call it even, right?
iTunes is free for both platforms, so that’s not an issue. Would Google’s Picasa be a fair substitute for iPhoto? Garageband, iDVD, and iMovie only seem relevent if the college student would use that software. I could see how you, as a film student, would view these as huge pluses because if it wasn’t included you would probably go out and buy software to perform these tasks. Most students wouldn’t have a need. iWeb - software that generates webpages only Safari can view? Uh, ok. :-)
MS Office is often bundled cheaply with PCs as well. I haven’t used Mac’s MS Office, so I can’t comment on that.
If you’re using Crossover or Darwine, you’re not talking about duel booting anymore. I just mentioned the need to buy Windows because you had mentioned a few times about how duel booting made the Mac an obvious choice.
It does look like for really high end systems, you can get an Apple desktop for a better price than a Dell desktop. But, again, we’re forgetting where this conversation began: college students. Does someone who uses their computer for downloading mp3’s and writing papers need two duel core processors? The average college student’s machine would be closer to the Mac mini range of functionality. I’m guessing that Dell’s prices will shine more on the lower range, since they seem to start off at lower base prices than Apple but in some cases charge more for add-ons.
So in summation, yes I do still disagree that a mac can (and is this case does) beat a pc in price.
“A PC always beats an identically equipped Mac on price†- Tell that to the mac pro that is 900 dollars cheaper than its equivalent dell.
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